Target Coatings, Inc.

[shorty85]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to both this forum and using Target Coatings products. What brings me here is that I am looking for more info on TC's lacquer, in particular, EM7000 HBL.

I just made my first attempt at finishing one of my guitars in EM7000 HBL and I haven't exactly been achieving my desired results.

My first issue is that I could not get this lacquer to work as a colour delivery method. Main problems here were that the dye (ColorFX) would not fully dissolve in the lacquer, which resulted in little spots of colour in my finish. Yes, I have read that Em1000 is the most recommended for colour coats, but the EM7000 is also listed as being tintable with ColorFX/Transtint dyes.

The second issue is that the dye seemed to shift on sharp edges, such as the heal of the neck. Basically, I had an even colour coat on all flat and most round surfaces with the sharp edges still looking like bare wood. To fix this problem, I sanded the surface back down and then sprayed a tinted sealer coat from fresh Shellac flakes, which worked fine.

From there I began spraying my clear coats of EM7000 which appeared to go on very well. They do have to go on very thin to avoid running, but I was prepared for this before I started.

My next issue is now that the coats have an extremely noticeable blue tint to them. I had read about some people having issues with this as well, but I have yet to see someone post a good response on if this is normal, if it will go away, or why it happens. Having read about it before hand, I had simply assumed that people were either spraying in poor conditions or spray their coats too thick. I do not believe either of these to be my issue and am convinced that it is simply a quality to this product that is listed as being "Optically Clear!".

Could someone please shed some more light on this issue for me?

Mainly, I am wondering if this blueish tint will go away in a short period of time as the finish cures? Or, should I skip the wait, strip the finish, and move on to something that works?

As some info on what I am using. I am spraying with a gravity feed HVLP gun with a 1.4mm tip, through a Fuji Super 4 Gold HVLP turbine system. I am doing my spraying in my basement shop. Although I can not provide the exact climate conditions, I am positive that I am within reasonable spraying conditions. I will also add that I have had great success in this climate when spraying my oil-based polyurethanes.

So, any thoughts on what happens next?

Thanks,
Daniel.

[Bob V]

Sometimes the blue tint/haze occurs if your coats are too thick. Yes it can fade but lets look at how heavy a coat you're getting on there. I'd suggest getting a wet film thickness gauge. They're actually free for the asking at Sherwin Williams (and other) paint stores if you know to ask for one.

As for the dye spotting issues, make sure that your mix sits long enough for the color to fully disperse in the finish material. Otherwise the dye tends to coalesce as the finish dries and you get weird spots or streaks. Sometimes its worthwhile to thin the dye a bit in water before mixing it into the finish.

[shorty85]

I really don't think that it is an issue with the coats being laid on too thick. Honestly, I feel that if I put them on any thinner, it would take me 50 coats to get enough build up for sanding and buffing.

I have heard of this issue from many people, and several of them being professional Luthiers who I am sure have climate controlled spray booths and the proper thickness of coats.

The fact is, that this finish leaves a blue tint on dark surfaces. I guess the most irritating thing for me is that this product of listed and marketed as a non-yellowing, crystal clear finish. If I had known of the potential us effect, I may have even still chose it, but I just feel that it is in poor taste for this company to advertise their product this way.

Part of my reasoning for joining this forum was to seek information on this product/issue. Another reason was to provide a honest review for Target Coatings in hopes that they can takes this as something constructive to work with. There are definitely qualities of this product that I very much like, but I will mention them in my review once I finish my project.

As for the dye. It was allowed to set over night and then filtered through a medium paint filter.

I also attempted to thin the finish with 5-10% water, but that just turned into an overly thin, watery mess.

Over all, I still don't feel that this is a tintable product and I will stick to using Shellac. Shellac is so accurate and easy to use that I can't see a reason not to use it. It's just a bummer that this is now another step/product that I have to add to my finishing schedule.

[Bob V]

Have you used a wet film thickness gauge with this material?

What's the temperature and humidity and dry time between coats? (humidity affects the drying of water based products, obviously in a different way than the conventional solvent borne products you're used to, so don't dismiss these variables).

Have you tried a UV lamp or other gentle heat source to aid curing?

Is it possible that overspray is settling back on the workpiece making things cloudy?

As for mixing the dye, I was suggesting that you mix in a little water to the concentrated dye mix before putting it into the Target product in order to avoid having it coalesce (I think "snot" is the technical term for it). On the other hand, thinning the entire mixture would only be necessary if you want a very thin wash-coat, or if your rig won't atomize the finish (and I doubt that's the problem with the quality equipment you've got).

It's a shame that you're not thrilled with your first use of the product, but there is a learning curve with water based products; one that I assure you is worth working through. Sure, it's harder to spray than shellac - everything's harder to spray than shellac.

[larry drover]

I am also not impressed with the Blue tint...I thought in the beginning it was the way I was applying it...After three guitars Nothing has changed still blue tint....My last guitar had 18 coats and a build of .005"....This product is not for me and I don't recommend it ....Maybe some builders have had a good experience but its not working for me....Sad when you put so much work in a build and it turns out that you have to redo the finish.....

[wbguitar]

EM7000 - applied at under 3mil using a thickness guage and had a strong blue tint with 2 coats. Never using this again.

[AlexanderJamesGuitars]

I do agree that it will have a blue haze over any dark surface. I shoot in properly humidity and temperature controlled rooms at 3 mil or less. The blue haze will lessen after many months but it will not go away over dark coloured areas.
_________________
Alexander James Colarossi
Head Luthier
Alexander James Guitars
www.alexanderjamesguitars.com
http://www.facebook.com/AlexanderJamesGuitars
Peterborough, Ontario, Canada.